What Is Meditation; What Meditation is Not ?

[Tim]

Sorry folks but I had to ask. Its just that every time I read the word Meditation in an article or post I cannot get beyond the question in my mind "Yeah but What IS meditation"

I currently believe that I have never actually Meditated, I have on occasion had a still mind if only for a few seconds. I'm thinking that meditation must be an active process.

IS meditation a (any) process in which the Mind is witnessed (believing that witnessing will in and of itself dissolve the mind) ?

Had a look at Wikipedia and found one article which peaked my interest

Meditation according to Krishnamurti

J Krishnamurti used the word meditation to mean something entirely different from the practice of any system or method to change the mind. He said, “Man, in order to escape his conflicts, has invented many forms of meditation. These have been based on desire, will, and the urge for achievement, and imply conflict and a struggle to arrive. This conscious, deliberate striving is always within the limits of a conditioned mind, and in this there is no freedom. All effort to meditate is the denial of meditation. Meditation is the ending of thought. It is only then that there is a different dimension which is beyond time.” For Krishnamurti, meditation was choiceless awareness in the present. He said "..When you learn about yourself, watch yourself, watch the way you walk, how you eat, what you say, the gossip, the hate, the jealousy - if you are aware of all that in yourself, without any choice, that is part of meditation."[47]

Two quotes taken from film footage of talk given by Jiddu Krishnamurti to children in 1984 "Meditation means 'To be free of measurement'." "Meditation can only take place when there is no effort, when there is no contradiction." [48]

OK So IS meditation setting your default from thoughts but Pure Awareness.

Sorry for this post being all over the place I guess I need to work through this Meditation business alright.

In Hope of inspiration or at least some thought provocation

Tim.

[Che Guebuddha]

Hi Tim 

Good question mate! Many say go and meditate without actually explaining what meditation Is, or what to expect from it.

Meditation Is the way to purify our culturally conditioned ego Mind (which is attached to many many things) and claim the full ownership of our Mind via clear awareness. Meditation Is awake Observation and Detachment/Letting go of various phenomena which separate our Mind and Body. Through Meditation we are unifying our Mind and Body and are able as such to realise our Divine Self.
It is not necessary for our survival to keep an ever busy Mind, so what we can do is train our Mind to let go and be in silence and stay in Our Centre the Lower Tanden. Just like this I believe we are truly able to "hear" the Universal and live according to the Universal, with it, with in it.

Meditation Is Not trying to achieve something  that would be the Ego Mind's game. Meditation Is enduring our Ego Mind's torturing and protesting and remain still in space. Meditation Is carving our own Mind which Is a loose Dog ready to bite anyone on the way  Such loose Dog needs a good pack leader and a short leash 

I have found many answers in the Buddhist point of view. This article is very good at explaining the basics;
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/chandew.pdf

Love and Light, Rose Quartz

[Mikhail]

Hi Tim,

Your questions are quite natural for those who just meet with the world of true meditation. Unfortunately, this word is so misused in European culture that it would be better to use some other word (say, Vipassana) if you want to mention "true" state beyond it.

Is the meditation active state? -- Yes.
Is it the state without mental activity? -- Yes.
Is it the state in which you are acting 24 hours a day? -- Yes.
Is this the state in which you do nothing the same 24 hours a day? --Yes.

As you can see, the meditation state "alloys together" mutually exclusive states and processes. This is one of many paradoxes which you meet with in Infinity.

So, it is useless to judge about meditation based on habits of our social mind. This mind is linear, one-tasked and primitive, while the meditation state is omni- (or at least multi-) directional, multi-tasked and very complex.

Therefore, it is not surprising that different authors underline different aspects of meditation state. If you have experienced it, you understand, what this or that text is talking about. But if you try to build a "model" of meditation without such experience, you will be confused.

I usually advise those, who work with me, not to avoid texts like you have quoted, but to wait with understanding of such texts until they get their own experience.

[Che Guebuddha]

Hi Tim,
I was out of town for a while so droped by to say hi and to leave behind a little something 

What Meditation Isn't

and

What Meditation Is

You can also read the rest since meditation can be viewed from diferent aspects (very generous; even though this book is for sale in bookstores they have published it online for free);
Mindfulness in Plain English

Love, RQ

[joegeorge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRqQ6F7G4A0&feature=related

maybe something for my friends

[Che Guebuddha]

Thank you joegeorge  

Krishnamurti wrote in one of his books;

There are various schools, in India and further East, where they teach methods of meditation — it is really most appalling. It means training the mind mechanically; it therefore ceases to be free and does not understand the problem.

So when we use the word "meditation" we do not mean something that is practiced. We have no method. Meditation means awareness: to be aware of what you are doing, what you are thinking, what you are feeling, aware without any choice, to observe, to learn. Meditation is to be aware of one's conditioning, how one is conditioned by the society in which one lives, in which one has been brought up, by the religious propaganda — aware without any choice, without distortion, without wishing it were different. Out of this awareness comes attention, the capacity to be completely attentive. Then there is freedom to see things as they actually are, without distortion. The mind becomes unconfused, clear, sensitive. Such meditation brings about a quality of mind that is completely silent — of which quality one can go on talking, but it will have no meaning unless it exists.

[Meditations, p.80.]

This is why visualisation is not good especially for beginners. Visualisation becomes just another distraction, just another game our ego will quickly adopt :-)
Instead simply observe all that Is, within and without, fabricate nothing, cling to nothing.

Krishnamurti said;

"Truth is a pathless land."

This is why I started to practice Shamtha-Vipassana meditation which some might consider pure Buddhist but in my eyes I feel it being non religious as Usui Reiki. Even Buddha said not to cling to Dhamma;

Nothing is worth clinging to, not even Dhamma. The teachings are like a raft which take you to the other shore, but once there you do not need to continue carrying the raft on your shoulders. (Samyutta Nikaya 50)

Analysis of What is Meditation by Krishnamurti:

Meditation starts in our dualistic, egocentric, time bound world.  Right where you are.  It starts like a drip.  Small drops.  Drip, drip, drip.  Like the beginning of the Ganges river high up in the Himalayas.  In the beginning, it is just small, just a drip.  Don't underestimate what the end is going to be yet.  Just start watching the mind and keep watching the mind.  Drip, drip, drip.

As you remain still and keep watching your thoughts and feeling, the thoughts and feelings run their course, loose momentum and finally start to wither and die.  Then meditation starts to pick up power and energy.  Be patient, persist.  As more energy is freed up, due to diminishing thoughts and feelings, the intensity of the meditation increases even further.  Remaining thoughts that now rise are comprehended at a glace and negated by intelligence at their very onset.  This then brings about great stillness within and makes available the Reality that lies beyond the dualistic, thinking mind.  Here the Ganges, which began with a drip, is now a powerful river, merges in the great ocean of Oneness.

What you need to do is gather all your energy, apply yourself and let the dripping begin.

Meditation Is something one can not talk about much and explain much BUT instead to do it. Once we engage into it we become aware of how fabricated we actually are and this can discourage us in the beginning but persist in sitting daily without clinging to any ideas, idols, systems, concepts and the dualistic self will calm down opening us to compassion and kindness, to the feeling of being one with overeating.

As I mentioned somewhere else earlier, Usui meditated for 21 days and fasted at the same time (as the legend states)! Do we relay feel what THIS MEANS?!   Just for the sake of experiencing as close as possible what Usui went through I will go for a 10 days Vipassana retreat where one meditates approx 10 hours per day and still can eat food (unlike Usui). Sitting there and facing one hungry self for 21 days (in my case 10 days only ... ONLY    ) ... I believe we all take this for granted with a big dose of ignorance and noncomprehension. This is where Reiki truly begins, in the meditation, in peeling off one's ego self by simply observing without repressing nor attaching. Cling to nothing, fabricate nothing, do nothing, just sitand  let your true nature come to light on its own  

For today only, do not anger, do not worry ... be kind to your self and others ... without the pure insight into who we are at this time it is hard to follow these precepts. These precepts can be followed by a pure hearth and calm mind, and how do we calm our dualistic mind ?   Read my signature;

Being a meditator is sometimes hard work and often boring. There is nothing in this world, however, that will give you greater control over your life than being in control of your mind: then it becomes a "tool to serve you" rather than a "wild tiger dragging you from here to there".

Love RQ

[strawberry]

Hello everyone,

10 days Vipassana retreat? Hello Rose Quartz, I haven't spoken to you on here for a while... hope you are well RQ when are you going to do this? I would be really interested in reading your experiences... will you be picking this up on your meditation Journal Thread?

Strawberry

[Che Guebuddha]

Hallo there 

No rush here, meditation is about taking it slow and easy. Patience and perseverance. At the moment I am sitting daily about 35-45 min in the morning and 10-15 min just before bed time, so still early to get into retreats before establishing my regular 2 x 1 hour daily meditating.
Before going to the actual 10 days (10 days !!!! ) retreat I will do a one day solo retreat in my summer house just to get the feel.

Also a very important part is to develop some sort of one-pointed concentartion before entering such long retreat of up to 10 hours of mediating per day (fair play to you Usui). At this time my mind is still running crazy but this time I am teaching myself to bring awareness to my whole body breathing each time my ego mind steps in (which happens often  )
I find Shamatha meditation being a very safe meditation to do (no chance to self hypnotise or fabricate new delusional conditioning).

I haven't spoken to you on here for a while... hope you are well

I am actually Very Fine  Since I started Shamatha and started observing my self without judging and condemning my self but simply watching my thoughts/emotions/sensations come and go something NATURALLY started to calm my anger and worry. I have more patience for people I work with, the colleagues and customers and I cling less to anything really. Still early days but I do feel I am moving on towards detaching from desires (cravings and aversions).

I will update my journal accordingly of course as soon I feel I have peeled off a layer or two off of my ego self 

Love, rQ

[Che Guebuddha]

Since this thread started with Krishnamurti why not continue in the same light 

This speach of his is very very clear on what meditation is and what meditation is not;

Jiddu Krishnamurti on Concentration and Meditation

Question: I have practised meditation most earnestly for twenty-five years, and I am still unable to go beyond a certain point. How am I to proceed further?

Jiddu Krishnamurti : Before we inquire into how to proceed further, must we not find out what meditation is? When I ask, "How am I to meditate?", am I not putting a wrong question? Such a question implies that I want to get somewhere, and I am willing to practise. a method in order to get what I want. It is like taking an examination in order to get a job.

Surely, the right question is to ask what meditation is; because right meditation gives perfume, depth, significance to life, and without it life has very little meaning. Do you understand, sirs? To know what is right meditation is much more important than earning a livelihood, getting married, having money, property, because without understanding, these things are all destroyed. So the understanding of the heart is the beginning of meditation.

I want to know what is meditation. I hope you will follow this, not just verbally, but in your own hearts, because without meditation you can know nothing of beauty, of love, or sorrow, of death and the whole expanse of life. The mind that says, "I must learn a method in order to meditate" is a silly mind, because it has not understood what meditation is.

So, what is meditation? Is not that very inquiry the beginning of meditation? Do you understand, sirs? No? I will go on and you will see. Is meditation a process of concentration, forcing the mind to conform to a particular pattern? That is what most of you do who `meditate'. You try to force your mind to focus on a certain idea, but other ideas creep in; you brush them away, but they creep in again. You go on playing this game for the next twenty years; and if at last you can manage to concentrate your mind on a chosen idea, you think you have learned how to meditate. But is that meditation? Let us see what is involved in concentration.

When a child is concentrating on a toy, what is happening? The attention of the child is being absorbed by the toy. He is not giving his attention to the toy, but the toy is very interesting and it absorbs his attention. That is exactly what is happening to you when you concentrate on the idea of the Master, on a picture, or when you repeat mantrams, and all the rest of it. The toy is absorbing you, and you are merely a plaything of the toy. You thought you were the master of the toy, but the toy is the master.

Concentration also implies exclusiveness. You exclude in order to arrive at a particular result, like a boy trying to pass an examination. The boy wants a profitable result, so he forces himself to concentrate, he makes tremendous effort to get what he wants, which is based on his desire, on his conditioning. And does not this process of forcing the mind to concentrate, which involves suppression, exclusiveness, make the mind narrow? A mind that is made narrow, one-pointed, has extraordinary possibilities in the sense that it may achieve a great deal; but life is not one-pointed, it is an enormous thing to be comprehended, to be loved. It is not petty. Sirs, this is not rhetoric, this is not mere verbiage. When one feels something real, the expression of it may sound rhetorical, but it is not.

So, to concentrate is not to meditate, even though that is what most of you do, calling it meditation. And if concentration is not meditation, then what is? Surely, meditation is to understand every thought that comes into being, and not to dwell upon one particular thought; it is to invite all thoughts so that you understand the whole process of thinking.

But what do you do now? You try to think of just one good thought, one good image, you repeat one good sentence which you have learnt from the Gita, the Bible, or what you will; therefore your mind becomes very narrow, limited, petty. Whereas, to be aware of every thought as it arises, and to understand the whole process of thinking, does not demand concentration.

On the contrary. To understand the total process of thinking, the mind must be astonishingly alert, and then you will see that what you call thinking is based on a mind that is conditioned. So your inquiry is not how to control thought, but how to free the mind from conditioning. The effort to control thought is part of the process of concentration in which the concentrator tries to make his mind silent, peaceful, is it not? "To have peace of mind" - that is a phrase which all of us use.

Now, what is peace of mind? How can the mind be quiet, have peace? Surely, not through discipline. The mind cannot be made still. A mind that is made still is a dead mind. To discover what it is to be still, one must inquire into the whole content of the mind - which means, really, finding out why the mind is seeking. Is the motive of search the desire for comfort, for permanency, for reward? If so, then such a mind may be still, but it will not find peace, because its stillness is forced, it is based on compulsion, fear, and such a mind is not a peaceful mind. We are still inquiring into the whole process of meditation.

People who `meditate' and have visions of Christ, Krishna, Buddha, the Virgin, or whoever it be, think they are advancing, making marvellous progress; but after all, the vision is the projection of their own background. What they want to see, they see, and that is obviously not meditation. On the contrary, meditation is to free the mind from all conditioning, and this is not a process that comes into being at a particular moment of the day when you are sitting cross-legged in a room by yourself. It must go on when you are walking when you are frightened, when you are getting into the bus; it means watching the manner of your speech when you are talking to your wife, to your boss, to your servant. All that is meditation.

So meditation is the understanding of the meditator. Without understanding the one who meditates, which is yourself, inquiry into how to meditate has very little value. The beginning of meditation is self-knowledge, and self-knowledge cannot be gathered from a book, nor is it to be had by listening to some professor of psychology, or to someone who interprets the Gita, or any of that rubbish. All interpreters are traitors because they are not original experiences, they are merely secondhand repeaters of something which they believe someone else has experienced and which they think is true. So beware of interpreters.

The mind which understands itself is a meditative mind. Self-knowledge is the beginning of meditation, and as you proceed deeply into it you will find that the mind becomes astonishingly quiet, unforced, completely still, without motion - which means there is no experiencer demanding experience. When there is only that state of stillness without any movement of the mind, then you will find that in that state something else takes place.

But you cannot possibly find out intellectually what that state is; you cannot come to it through the description of another, including myself. All that you can do is to free the mind from its conditioning, from the traditions, the greed, and all the petty things with which it is now burdened. Then you will see that, without your seeking it, the mind is astonishingly quiet; and for such a mind, that which is immeasurable comes into being.

You cannot go to the immeasurable, you cannot search it out, you cannot delve into the depths of it. You can delve only into the recesses of your own heart and mind. You cannot invite truth, it must come to you; therefore don't seek it. Understand your own life and then truth will come darkly, without any invitation; and then you will discover that there is immense beauty, a sensitivity to both the ugly and the beautiful.

[biminidave]

This is why I started to practice Shamtha-Vipassana meditation which some might consider pure Buddhist but in my eyes I feel it being non religious as Usui Reiki. Even Buddha said not to cling to Dhamma;

'Cmon RC, I learned Vipassana on Buddhist websites.  The only place I've ever found good Vipassana instruction was Buddhist sponsored.  There's no shame in using Buddhist techniques or being Buddhist.  Usui was a Buddhist, most of TJR is.  If there was anything that resembled Sangha in my area I'd have taken refuge years ago.  You could say I already have via distance.  ;-)

I don't know why we have to complicate meditation so much. We all complicate it.  I've been guilty of using 1,000 words to tell someone why they should meditate or how to do it when all I really had to do was say:

Hey man, set a timer for 10 minutes.  Sit in a comfy chair.  Close your eyes.  Clear your mind, and concentrate on your breathing.  The ONLY thing in the whole universe you want to be aware of is your breathing.  In and out.  In and out. If a thought comes into your mind, smile and go back to your breathing, the thought will go away eventually if you stay with your breath.  When the timer goes off congratulate yourself, you made it through 10 minutes of mindfulness meditation.  You could call it Zazen if you could get into and hold that posture, ouch!

Do that every day for a week.  Next week kick the timer up to 20 minutes.

When you get used to meditating this way it's amazing how often you can use it.  Washing dishes is a great opportunity, (no knives) walking, gardening, dusting, an endless list.  It takes awhile to get to that point though.

Thanks for stimulating my gray matter to the point where I wanted to put some of my practice into print, hope it helps someone.

[Che Guebuddha]

Its been approx 8 month since i started Shamatha and it is fantastic how much i came to know my self, my conditioned ego self which is cluttering my mind.

I tried many things like focusing on breath, on nose, belly, counting, visualising, repeating Gokai and what not just to realise that i was getting nowhere and that my anger did not lessening rather i was fighting my wife and working colegues and customers ... everything was going on my nerves.

I knew my practice isnt right. Once i let go of concentrating, focusing, silencing, scaning and all similar fabricating and hypnotising i came to the point where i just calmed my body and the eye balls.
Mind was chattering and i let it chatter. The more i stayed with my stilled eye balls the better i could see the thoughts as something happening behind the eye balls tryibg to pass the eyes to project the memory into thoughtful reality.

Once i turn back to stilling my eye balls so does the mind calm  and i detach from the thoughts clearly seeing them as a separate part. This is how mindful awareness is developed.

It is important to keep calming the body. Body which is calmed long enough will stop releasing stress hormones and more positive joyful hormones take place like dopamine and serotonin.
Remember thatbody can heal it self once the mind gives it peaceful calm to do so.

I now meditate 1 hour once a day which fills me with enough calm for the day.

I now listen and talk to people with much more Actual (not intelectual which doesnt last long and will colapse) kindness and understanding.

If the meditation practice is not improving your life then something is wrong with it and one should aquire into it to find the culprit. Usualy it is trying too hard

Meditation is like fueling the car for the road. Fueling the car isnt as important as the journey, the actual living with self and others (off the cushion).

Remain relaxed, or dont

[Coin]

Hi RQ,

If the meditation practice is not improving your life then something is wrong [\quote]

Interesting
Meditation helps me to accept the way it is, without the urge of improvement.
That is what makes my mind clear and give me new energy.

Besides that, how about there is no right or wrong but just always a challenge to get more out of your life. Sounds great don't you think

Still a great conversation this topic!

Love, Johan

[Naropa]

Hi RQ,

If the meditation practice is not improving your life then something is wrong [\quote]

Interesting
Meditation helps me to accept the way it is, without the urge of improvement.
That is what makes my mind clear and give me new energy.

Besides that, how about there is no right or wrong but just always a challenge to get more out of your life. Sounds great don't you think

Still a great conversation this topic!

Love, Johan

Hi, Many times the process of growth in meditation and getting to know yourself involves feeling good at first as you separate from external stimuli.  At some point the old stuff comes up and you may feel worse for a while, sometimes years.  Oscillation /Vacillation; finding yourself, loosing yourself, finding God, loosing God, its a trip.  Always comeback to the breath.  Label it (the stiff- thought, emotion, story line, feeling, etc)  lightly as a feather touching a soap bubble and not popping it "thought" as you find your center and it floats away  or you get caught in it and find that hours or days or years have gone by and then you come back to your breath. Have fun. Label it lightly as a feather touching a soap bubble and not popping it "thought" as you find your center and it floats away or you get caught in it and find that hours or days or years have gone by and then you come back to your breath. Have fun. Label it lightly as a feather touching a soap bubble and not popping it "thought" as you find your center and it floats away  or you get caught in it and find that hours or days or years have gone by and then you come back to your breath. Have fun. Label it lightly as a feather touching a soap bubble and not popping it "thought" as you find your center and it floats away  or you get caught in it and find that hours or days or years have gone by and then you come back to your breath. Have fun.................
 
Naropa
 

[Che Guebuddha]

Well said both of you  

I ment more like if i still after a year of meditation drink alcohol and smoke and act agrivated with others there must be something i am missing in my practice. One can fool itself with cute rituals and get nowhere with it.

[Naropa]

Meditation is not meant to move you towards a idea of what perfection (health) might be or Perhaps it is.......
Naropa

[Che Guebuddha]

Just to drop a quote. A friend wrote this on another forum;

In meditation, relaxing the body, establishing calm, the mind quiets and the subconscious becomes increasingly conscious to fill the vacuum. As this process happens the elements of subconscious that are detrimental or unwholesome and lead to unwholesome behaviour, thought or word become clearly seen and no longer have the power over you they had before.

The subconscious cannot be controlled but can be shredded by bringing it into the light (of awareness).